Liminal Thinking with Dave Gray: Meet the Man Who Accidentally Wrote a Book About Us

What if your beliefs—about work, people, or even yourself—are quietly holding you back? In this episode of The Mob Mentality Show, we sit down with visual thinker, author, and accidental Mob Programming anthropologist Dave Gray to unpack the power of belief, clarity, and collaboration in tech and beyond.

Dave Gray is known for Liminal Thinking—a book about understanding the invisible beliefs that shape behavior and systems. But did he know he was writing a book about us? Turns out, our Mob Programming origin story and Dave’s journey are more connected than you’d expect.

With roots as an artist, Dave brings a rare perspective to complex tech and business systems. From prior infographic posters that demystified RFID and Bluetooth when they first came out, to visual guides on inner transformation and his latest books, Dave's work simplifies the complicated and builds bridges for real understanding.

With Dave we explore:

• What led Dave from agile software development to Liminal Thinking

• Why most Agile transformations fail 

• How to navigate confusing resistance—are people really lost, or just saying “no”?

• The principles behind creating safe spaces and disrupting unhelpful routines

• Visual and liminal thinking for fostering organic authentic change, not just communication tricks

• Raw observation vs. narrative: how perception can distort reality

• Why having lunch with someone you think is "crazy" or "stupid" might be the wisest move

• The psychology behind tech resistance, organizational inertia, and true agility

We also revisit how Woody Zuill and our original Mob Programming team with Chris Lucian smashed the belief that “real work” only happens in cubicles and outside of "meetings." The mob origin story had Liminal Thinking on full display as that team reflected, questioned, and ultimately acted in defiance of broken norms. The result? A shift in how we define space, collaboration, and innovation as Dave captures in his book. 

If you work in tech, lead change, facilitate teams, or just feel stuck inside outdated ways of working, this episode is for you.

Video and Show Notes: https://youtu.be/fWF6kQBRdhg